Chris et al,

We're still left with a fundamental challenge.  A web link / emailed warning
to clients pre-supposes that they ARE clients already.  What about those
potential registrants - in the majority - who are not yet clients?  I doubt
that they would visit registrars' or resellers' sites to check on their
rights or to hunt down consumer alerts.

And what about those potential clients who visit IRA's site, get a plausible
yet deceptive picture?  Will they be warned or suitably informed?

All this, and the flurry of postings, lead me to the following conclusions:

1	We obviously cannot second-guess what tricks some businesses will
get up to, and to try to pre-empt every possibility would lead, as Mark
Hughes suggested in his post (and Chris Disspain in the last public meeting)
to the mother of all bureaucracies.  What's more important is to retain
sufficient power and flexibility to deal with such matters should they
arise.  And such may well entail a technical solution.

2	Consumer education has to be multi-faceted.  There is no single
solution, nor is there an instant solution.  I believe that it will entail
effort from auDA, registrars and resellers, each in their own spheres of
influence.  We must, however, be and be seen to be proactive.

3	The Code of Conduct (or Practice, as the case may be) will be
central, as it provides a means of measurement as well as a basis of
recourse for consumers and providers.

4	auDA needs to be positioned as the point of last resort, before ACCC
/ legal action, so that consumers feel they can go to a higher authority, as
it were.  This alone dictates that auDA cannot "do it all".

Now I've got work to do .....

Ron Stark


-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Disspain [mailto:ceo§auda.org.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 21 November 2001 1:32 PM
To: dns§auda.org.au
Subject: RE: [DNS] auDA web site


Dave,

Well, not quite. Sure we could simply provide copies of our Consumer Alerts.
But there is more to it than that if we want to do the job properly. We
would need to write 'copy' that sets out what people can expect, what their
rights are and so on. That will need to be checked by lawyers to ensure that
we weren't being libellous etc. For example, Josh Rowe has helpfully
provided copies of various promotional stuff sent out by various re-sellers.
It would seem a simple matter, wouldn't it, to simply post those to this new
web page and say that these are the sorts of things that auDA doesn't
approve of. It's not that simple unfortunately. What's the basis of us
saying such a thing? Can we specifically name a re-seller without ending up
spending time and money defending ourselves in court?

As I say, I think it's a good idea and something we can work on.

Regards,

Chris Disspain
CEO - auDA
ceo§auda.org.au
+61-3-9349-4711
www.auda.org.au


-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Hooper [mailto:dave§davehooper.net]
Sent: Wednesday, 21 November 2001 13:21
To: dns§auda.org.au
Subject: RE: [DNS] auDA web site

Chris,

That's the whole point. It could probably happen in about an hour if the
will was there. Sadly, I don't think it is.

Dave.

]-----Original Message-----
]From: Chris Disspain [mailto:ceo§auda.org.au]
]Sent: Wednesday, 21 November 2001 1:20 PM
]To: dns§auda.org.au
]Subject: RE: [DNS] auDA web site
]
]
]Thanks Dave. That's a good idea. Probably the easiest way to do
]would be for
]us to simply put all the relevant information together somewhere
]on the auDA
]site and have the link point there. I'll work o it but please don't expect
]it to happen tomorrow ;-)
]
]Regards,
]
]Chris Disspain
]CEO - auDA
]ceo§auda.org.au
]+61-3-9349-4711
]www.auda.org.au
]
]
]-----Original Message-----
]From: Dave Hooper [mailto:dave§davehooper.net]
]Sent: Wednesday, 21 November 2001 13:05
]To: dns§auda.org.au
]Subject: RE: [DNS] auDA web site
]
]Chris,
]
]Hears a solution. Get this industry working for you.
]
]1. Ask for donations of design for a site which explains, in clear english
](unlike some of the verbosity which goes on in here) the message you are
]trying to get across.
]2. Ask for someone to design a neat, small button link which every 'decent'
]domain retailer and can place on their site.
]3. Link the utton in point 2 to the site in point 1, and away you go. A
]cheap, highly affective solution to the issue.
]
]I'm sure most would agree to place such a linked button on their
]sites if it
]meant dealing with the 'undecent' companies which are the subject of
]discussion here.
]
]Dave Hooper.
]
]]-----Original Message-----
]]From: Chris Disspain [mailto:ceo§auda.org.au]
]]Sent: Wednesday, 21 November 2001 12:58 PM
]]To: dns§auda.org.au
]]Subject: RE: [DNS] auDA web site
]]
]]
]]Don,
]]
]]I did not suggest that we lacked "sufficient funding for managed
]]advertising
]](of calls for public comment etc.)"  I made no mention of public
]]comment and
]]it is not correct to suggest that auDA cannot fund such processes.
]]
]]I said that auDA does not, at present, have the funds to
]instigate a public
]]awareness campaign which by necessity would be scatter-gun in its
]approach.
]]There is a difference. Soon we will be commencing our 'education campaign'
]]to inform people about the new changes etc. When we do that we
]will also be
]]able to deal with existing practices.
]]
]]As for approaching NOIE, whilst I cannot speak for them, my
]]understanding is
]]that they support a self-regulatory system that is self funded. A
]]self-regulatory system, by definition does not have a legislative
]]basis from
]]which to operate but regulates itself.
]]
]]Volunteers were offered the opportunity to be a registry operator. The
]]tender was open to everyone.
]]
]]I do not think your linking of volunteer registry operators and voluntary
]]actions of ISPs is valid. ISPs/re-sellers are in business. One of the
]]fundamental tenets of good business (at least from my point of
]]view) is that
]]an opportunity to contact your customers (to place you at the
]'top of their
]]mind') is very valuable. I would have thought that most
]re-sellers and ISPs
]]would have welcomed the opportunity to have a good reason to contact their
]]customers and keep them informed. Further, and perhaps far more
]]importantly,
]]it is those very re-sellers and ISPs who are losing customers to the
]]'sharks'. Surely the tiny cost of emailing their database with relevant
]]educational information is worthwhile. Apart from anything else,
]]it's simply
]]good customer service. This does not mean that they sould stop complaining
]]to us, ACCC and so on. It just means that a little pro-activity
]wouldn't go
]]astray.
]]
]]It is not auDA's role to market the .au domain name space to any great
]]degree. auDA is the policy body. It will be the role of the Registry
]]Operators which is why the RFT asks the specific questions;
]]
]]"Give details of the Respondent's proposed Marketing Plan pursuant to the
]]Registry Licence Agreement." and,
]]"Give details of the Respondent's capacity to contribute to the
]development
]]of the domain name industry in Australia."
]]
]]Regards,
]]
]]
]]Chris Disspain
]]CEO - auDA
]]ceo§auda.org.au
]]+61-3-9349-4711
]]www.auda.org.au
]]
]]
]]-----Original Message-----
]]From: Don Cameron [mailto:donc§mudgeeab.com.au]
]]Sent: Wednesday, 21 November 2001 11:59
]]To: dns§auda.org.au
]]Subject: Re: [DNS] auDA web site
]]
]]Hi all,
]]
]]Firstly, thank you Chris for your responses. A degree of frustration has
]]been communicated in recent postings, and the courtesy and grace
]with which
]]you reply is welcomed and appreciated.
]]
]]Like Ron I am not 'against' auDA in these matters, however there
]]are obvious
]]challenges to be faced, and the continuance of repetitious themes
]outlining
]]the reasons why things cannot be done, sadly only gives rise to further
]]frustration - it's a vicious circle (the dreaded loop in a bad piece of
]]code), however one that will not be broken without open appraisal and
]]analysis of all the available options.
]]
]]I have recently posted on the possibility of NOIE taking a more proactive
]]role in some of these issues, and noting your own comments to the effect
]]that you lack sufficient funding for managed advertising (of calls for
]]public comment etc.), and that you also lack the legislative basis to
]]enforce community protection policies, would it be a 'bad thing'
]]to approach
]]NOIE for legislative assistance and input?
]]
]]Another of the loops we seem to be stuck in involves the matter of
]]volunteer
]]administration of .org and .asn etc. On one hand we are presented with the
]]argument that volunteers should not be offered these entities, because the
]]formalities of commercial tendering is paramount to competition,
]yet on the
]]other hand we are told that it is only through the voluntary 'good
]]grace' of
]]ISP's that any of these other issues will be addressed. Can we really have
]]it both ways? - ISP's are quite entitled to charge for distributing auDA
]]correspondence, and understandably may well wish to do so
]considering their
]]own costs are likely to increase through implementation of the competitive
]]model (even though these cost will undoubtedly be passed-on to
]]customers for
]]items such as .org.au domains etc.).
]]
]]In closing, I forwarded a posting a few days ago requesting information on
]]auDA's long-term marketing strategies and the vision for the .au
]namespace.
]]Accepting the Competition Advisory Panel's findings were
]]undoubtedly subject
]]to a brief during which this was discussed, is such a document
]available? -
]]If possible I would like to get an overview of where we are
]]heading, so some
]]of these administrative matters can be assessed in the context of exactly
]]what it is we are trying to achieve.
]]
]]Regards, Don
]]
]]--
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