Dear Ron I'm sorry, maybe I misunderstood you. My understanding is that once the ATO issue an ABN to a company, it has that ABN for its life. The ABN is actually two numbers prefixed to the ACN issued by the ASIC. Even if a company cancelled its ABN, and then sort have a new number issued, the ATO would simply re-activate the previous ABN. They would not issue a totally new ABN in my experience. The original poster stated that he has purchased a "business" not a "company" so I'm guessing there is in fact a transfer of the ownership of the business to a new entity/company (therefore a new ABN). This is not a clerical error/revision being updated. Take care Shane -----Original Message----- From: dns-bounces+lists=odea.net§dotau.org [mailto:dns-bounces+lists=odea.net§dotau.org] On Behalf Of Ron Stark Sent: Thursday, 4 January 2007 2:57 PM To: '.au DNS Discussion List' Subject: Re: [DNS] Transfer of Domains Shane, I did indeed understand your email. I was prompted to respond by your assertion that a single corporate entity such as Acme Pty Ltd can in fact be 10 different Acme's, each known as Acme Pty Ltd. Very confusing and risky to trade with if you ask me. It's that particular aspect that I find difficult to accept, but as I am not a lawyer (IANAL) I can't speak with any authority. The question raised by your email, and the one to which I responded, is whether the change of an ABN but not the registered company name constitutes a new legal entity. If so, transfer fees would apply. If not, it's a simple clerical revision, similar to a telephone number change as David Jones suggests, in which case a transfer hasn't taken place. Ron Stark : -----Original Message----- : From: dns-bounces+ronstark=snapsite.com.au§dotau.org : [mailto:dns-bounces+ronstark=snapsite.com.au§dotau.org] On : Behalf Of lists : Sent: Thursday, 4 January 2007 14:30 : To: '.au DNS Discussion List' : Subject: Re: [DNS] Transfer of Domains : : : Ah, Ron : : That's not what I'm saying. I agree, one legal entity can : have hundreds of "business names" but all business names : would have ONE ABN (maybe with a trailing branch ID), but one : ABN all the same. : : For example, go to the Aust Bus Registry : http://www.abr.gov.au and look up BHP BILLITON LIMITED 49 004 : 028 077. It has one ABN but 10 or so business names. : : However, BHP BILLITON MINERALS PTY LTD - a separate legal : entity has a different ABN - 93 008 694 782 (and also a : number of business names. : : Could I suggest you read my email more clearly. : : The original poster was referring to purchasing a business : (clearly a change of legal ownership) and therefore there is : a need to transfer the domain name from one legal entity to another. : : Obviously, if, for example, they had purchased all the shares : in the company that carried on the business, then there would : be no change of legal ownership of the business (just a : change in the shareholders of the company. : : Is this clearer? : : Regards : : Shane : : : : -----Original Message----- : From: dns-bounces+lists=odea.net§dotau.org : [mailto:dns-bounces+lists=odea.net§dotau.org] On Behalf Of Ron Stark : Sent: Thursday, 4 January 2007 1:21 PM : To: '.au DNS Discussion List' : Subject: Re: [DNS] Transfer of Domains : : IANAL but that doesn't sound right to me. That's tantamount : to saying that one corporate entity that operates under two : trading names (that may be aligned to brand names) is in fact : two separate legal identities. : : Ron Stark : : : : -----Original Message----- : : From: dns-bounces+ronstark=snapsite.com.au§dotau.org : : [mailto:dns-bounces+ronstark=snapsite.com.au§dotau.org] On : : Behalf Of lists : : Sent: Thursday, 4 January 2007 13:16 : : To: '.au DNS Discussion List' : : Subject: Re: [DNS] Transfer of Domains : : : : : : Dear Kim : : : : Well, it seems to me that if the ABN has changed the legal : : entity (or natural person) who owns the business name is a : : new legal person. There has in fact been a physical change : : of ownership. For example, : : : : XYZ Pty Ltd ACN 123 123 123 : : XYZ Pty Ltd ACN 234 234 234 : : XYZ Pty Ltd ACN 123 123 123 trading as My Business Name XYZ : : Pty Ltd ACN 234 234 234 trading as My Business Name : : : : are not the same legal entity. They all have differing ABN's : : and would be controlled by different legal entities. : : : : With the new Corporations Law (of the early 1990's) the legal : : name of an entity include the ACN (Aust Coy Number). So, XYZ : : Pty Ltd is really XYZ Pty Ltd ACN 123 123 123 and is a : : totally different company from XYZ Pty Ltd ACN : : 234 234 234. : : : : So, one can have two companies with identical names (XYZ Pty : : Ltd) but that in reality are totally independent legal : : entities. This resulted from companies previously being : : incorporated in States whereas there is now a national : : registry. So, there could be a XYZ Pty Ltd (inc in NSW) and : : XYZ Pty Ltd (inc in ACT). Same name, different legal entities. : : : : There needs to be clarity about who actually holds the domain : : name not simply the business name (which is not a legal : : entity) associated with it's registration for the DNS system. : : : : Peace : : : : Shane : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : -----Original Message----- : : From: dns-bounces+lists=odea.net§dotau.org : : [mailto:dns-bounces+lists=odea.net§dotau.org] On Behalf Of : David Jones : : Sent: Thursday, 4 January 2007 12:25 PM : : To: .au DNS Discussion List : : Subject: Re: [DNS] Transfer of Domains : : : : Hi Kim, : : : : What I was questioning is why can't the ABN be changed if the : : registrant is still the same business who has simply changed : : their ABN. Then there would be no renewal fees or paperwork : : involved. It would be the same as changing a phone number. : : After all the registrant hasn't changed, only the ABN. : : : : DJ : : : : --- Kimberley Lowton <klowton§netregistry.com.au> : : wrote: : : : : > Hi David, : : > : : > The only fee from auDA to change the registrant of a domain : : is the fee : : > for a new 2 year registration. : : > : : > When the registrant of a domain is changed the existing domain : : > registration is cancelled, and a new 2 year registration : is issued. : : > : : > In order to process the registrant name change, registrars : : must abide : : > by the Registrant Transfer policy set by auDA : : > (http://www.auda.org.au/policies/auda-2004-03/). : : > : : > As the policy states, it is the responsibility of the registrar to : : > ensure that both the current and proposed new registrants : : are eligible : : > to transfer the licence, and to ensure that the statutory : : declaration : : > has been completed and is valid. Registrars must then apply : : to the .au : : > registry for the change to be made, and wait for approval. Once : : > approval comes through, most registrars will then have : : administration : : > within their own management systems to ensure that the new : : registrant : : > is able to manage the domain under a new account, etc. : : > : : > Changing ownership details of a .au domain is not quite as : : simple as : : > "just updating a number" as you infer. While the actual : : registry cost : : > may not be high, the administrative cost of performing the change : : > properly in line with policy is substantial, which is generally : : > reflected in the overall price that most registrars will charge. : : > : : > : : > - Kim Lowton : : > : : > : : > -----Original Message----- : : > From: : : > dns-bounces+klowton=netregistry.com.au§dotau.org : : > : : [mailto:dns-bounces+klowton=netregistry.com.au§dotau.org] : : > On Behalf Of David : : > Jones : : > Sent: Thursday, 4 January 2007 11:06 AM : : > To: .au DNS Discussion List : : > Subject: Re: [DNS] Transfer of Domains : : > : : > I can't see why a fee should be involved for a simple : change of ABN : : > number if all other details remain the same ie business name, ARBN : : > etc. : : > : : > Isn't the domain registered to the business not to the ABN. : : ABNs can : : > change quite easily. : : > : : > If auDA insists on charging a fee for change of ABN then : : registrants : : > should be made aware that if they register the name under : : the ABN then : : > if they change their ABN they will be liable for a fee. That way : : > registrants would be more inclined to register a domain : : under the ACN : : > or ARBN which would not change. : : > : : > DJ : : > : : > : : > : : > Send instant messages to your online friends : : > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com : : > : : -------------------------------------------------------------- : : ------------- : : > List policy, unsubscribing and archives => http://dotau.org/ : : > : : > : : -------------------------------------------------------------- : : ------------- : : > List policy, unsubscribing and archives => : : > http://dotau.org/ : : > : : : : : : Send instant messages to your online friends : : http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com : : -------------------------------------------------------------- : : ------------- : : List policy, unsubscribing and archives => http://dotau.org/ : : : : -------------------------------------------------------------- : : ------------- : : List policy, unsubscribing and archives => http://dotau.org/ : : : -------------------------------------------------------------- : ------------- : List policy, unsubscribing and archives => http://dotau.org/ : : -------------------------------------------------------------- : ------------- : List policy, unsubscribing and archives => http://dotau.org/ : --------------------------------------------------------------------------- List policy, unsubscribing and archives => http://dotau.org/Received on Thu Jan 04 2007 - 11:13:04 UTC
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