Sandra

Joker.com are notoriously difficult to transfer domains away from, as you
have already discovered.

My advice would be to make sure you are trying to transfer the name to a
registrar that knows what they're doing and is happy to provide the support
that you will need to succeed with this transfer.

Is ICANN going to do anything about it?  Not likely anytime soon...

Regards

Jon

>-- Original Message --
>Reply-To: dns§lists.auda.org.au
>Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 17:30:21 +0930
>From: Virtual Visions <webdesign&#167;virtualvisions.com.au>
>To: dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au
>Subject: [DNS] transfer .com domain
>
>
>Hi,
>
>Thanks for your reply.
>
>I did as you suggested and found that Joker.com are the actual 
>Registrars, and so I guess  RegistryWeb where the domain was registered

>last year, is just a reseller for Joker.com.
>
>Anyway, I found this information on joker.com's site below if anyone is

>interested in reading. Seems quite a tedious process to get a domain 
>transferred away.  I tried logging into the Servicezone all afternoon 
>without success.  I did come across many other very annoyed customers 
>that posted comments about how difficult Joker.com is to deal with and

>transfer a domain away from ... again, if you are interested in 
>checking it out.  Looks like there have been many complaints to ICANN.
>
>This is all very disappointing, and I feel I must give up on 
>transferring this domain (and probably many others I referred to 
>RegistryWeb) over the past few years.
>
>Any ideas would be most appreciated.
>Thanks, Sandra
>
>-----------------------------
>
>How to Change from joker.com to another Registrar
>Please go to Servicezone to transfer domains from joker to another 
>registrar.
>New procedure for transfers of domains from joker.com to another ICANN

>accredited registrar
>Law in Germany is oriented to protect the consumer. Joker.com is 
>obligated to ask the owner and/or the admin-c for explicit agreement in

>the case a domain should be transferred from joker.com to another ICANN

>accredited registrar. Starting 24.04.2002 joker.com introduced a new 
>process for those requests:
>
>*	Step 1: Opening a time slot of 10 calender days for transfers of 
>domains at joker.com
>*	1a. Joker.com will only accept transfer-request from other registrars

>if advised before such request arrives at joker.com .
>*	1b. Advising joker.com can be done by the owner or admin-c or 
>billing-c of the domain by opening a time slot for transfer of the 
>domain. Please go to Servicezone to initiate the opening.
>*	1c. As soon as joker.com gets the demand to open the time slot the 
>owner and the admin-c are notified by email.
>*	1d. If none of them objects, but at least one of them agrees 
>explicitly within 5 calendar days, an additional time slot of 10 
>calender days is opened during which joker.com accepts transfer-request

>from other registrars.
>*	1e. The owner and the admin-c will be notified of the result of that

>first step, i.e. after 5 days.
>*	1f. If the time slot was opened, the owner and admin-c will be 
>informed at the end of the time slot if no transfer-request was 
>received by joker.com .
>*	1g. If the TLD is .info or .biz you need a so called auth-id from 
>joker.com. That auth-id must be submitted to the registry by the new 
>registrar. If the 10 days time slot is opened you will be able to get 
>the auth-id by using the status request of transfer at the servicezone.
>*	1h. During the whole time (5+10 days), but only if the domains is not

>already transferred, the owner and/or admin-c has the possibility to 
>reject the transfer.
>*	Step 2: Initiating the transfer-request at another registrar
>*	2a. In addition and after getting the notification from joker.com 
>that the time slot of 10 days is open, the new registrar has to 
>initiate the transfer-request at the registry.
>*	<2b. If such transfer-request arrives within the time slot at 
>joker.com the domain will be transferred to the new registrar without 
>additional request of agreement from the owner and/or admin-c.
>*	2c. Owner and admin-c will be notified of the result.
>*	2d. Transfer-request arriving outside the time slot will be refused.
>*	2e. Transfer-request arriving when a domain is expired will be 
>refused. Be aware that the registry for com - net - org has a process 
>of auto-renew, i.e. the domain is temporarily prolonged at the cost of

>joker.com even if it was not paid by the customer. That domain is 
>considered as expired and will be deleted if the customer does not pay.
>
>
>Example:
>Day
>01 Demanding the opening of the time slot from owner/admin-c/billing-c
>02 email from joker.com to owner and admin-c asking for agreement
>03
>04
>05
>06 email from joker.com announcing the result of the 1. step, start of

>time slot
>07
>08
>09
>10 possibly email to owner and admin-c announcing that transfer is 
>enabled because a transfer-request arrived at joker.com.
>....
>16 if no transfer-request arrived at joker.com, email to owner and 
>admin-c stating that time slot is now closed without transfer enabled.
>butty&#167;totalise.co.uk says: Note to all freeparking customers: this 
>probably wont work for you since you did not register the domain 
>directly with joker.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>yves&#167;lenoren.com says: It seems almost imposible to transfer away now 
>with this new procedure! I answered all emails with 'AGREE:YES ( I want

>to transfer the domain )' But nevertheless it was rejected. I've send 
>lost of questions via the Support Page, but nobody answers, even faxes

>do not help. I think I have to look for an attorney specialised in 
>consumerprotection. Or contact ICANN 
>http://www.internic.net/cgi/registrars/problem-report.cgi
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>jhouyvet&#167;compuserve.com says: let's icann complain about this procedure
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>mark&#167;antrosoft.co.uk says: Worked first time for me. Make sure you are

>deleting all the NO: in the email
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>stacey&#167;bo-bear.demon.co.uk says: I am appaled with your service, it is

>rubbish. Customer support is none exististent and Joker.com is 
>defiently a Joke. I would not recommend you at all.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>denim&#167;hosers.org says: I'll have to agree with Stacey on this one. This

>registrar is worse than Verisign when it comes to transferring domains

>away. German law my a**... they just don't want to lose their money.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>service&#167;media2u.de says: I'll have to agree, too! It's a f**** with 
>this procedure!! I'll never ever register a domain with joker.com 
>again. For months I try to transfer a domain to another registrar, but

>it seems not to be possible. They don't let me, although I agreed a 
>view times.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>marc&#167;imarc.org says: Joker users do not trust this, Siegfried will not

>let you go! Siegfried, up this wrong german law, there is the EEC and I

>will screw you with this very very deep. You rejected all the requests,

>now I am going to make reject your accreditation, this will make you be

>a good boy... To keep 12 euros, you are going to lose eveything!
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>marc&#167;imarc.org says: Joker users do not trust this, Siegfried will not

>let you go! Siegfried, up this wrong german law, there is the EEC and I

>will screw you with this very very deep. You rejected all the requests,

>now I am going to make reject your accreditation, this will make you be

>a good boy... To keep 12 euros, you are going to lose eveything!
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>hostmaster&#167;warp.mine.nu says: A 5 day delay in opening the time window

>for a losing transfer is a bit long in this day and age of the 
>internet. Can your systems not bear to lose us any sooner than that? 
>not even if both admin contact and owner agree? Seems you can certainly

>register a domain faster than that. We only want to transfer away 
>because your systems will not support our needs and to then make us 
>wait a further 5 days before we can use a different registrar is adding

>insult to injury. This is assuming it even works, as it looks like 
>other users have had the same sort of response I have with questions to

>support.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>ASkwar&#167;DigitalProjects.com says: I first had problems to acknowledge 
>the domain transfer request (the mail that should be sent to 
>xfr-response&#167;joker.com with AGREE:YES). I managed to ACK the request, 
>by replying to the mail (with the correct From: line) and just deleting

>every AGREE:NO or AGREE=NO. Ie. I replied to the mail (with "> " at the

>beginning of every line) and my Reply Mail also contained the Domain 
>Name: and Transfer ID: lines. It also contained all the other lines 
>from the original message. I agree however, that the instructions in 
>this mail should be clearer!
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>rhenning&#167;aol.com says: The method by which you approve the transfer 
>request through email is stupid and frustrating. The email should have

>a link to joker where you can click a button to approve the transfer. 
>Instead, you have to have the text EXACTLY as they say - WHICH IS NOT 
>FUCKING CLEAR - and then get these stupid messages that you have no 
>idea what is going on. THIS PLACE SUCKS.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>rhenning&#167;aol.com says: 
>http://reports.internic.net/cgi/registrars/problem-report.cgi THE LINK

>ABOVE IS A FORM TO COMPLAIN TO iCann.... DO IT!
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>btibbels&#167;totalise.co.uk says: What a shit system - I have wasted two 
>days trying to change just the nameservers and your trashy procedural 
>system that can surely only be understood by yourself. Get me outta 
>here I'm a domain owner. Bye Bye