Jon, I went to their site using the link in the original posting, which I
too have already deleted.

The information to which I refer is on their site.

If you read their offer as carefully as it appears to have been written, it
says that their offer's default setting is "Security On" if they don't hear
from you.  Restated, it means that you accept their offer in the absence of
you declining it.  Embedded in their "security offer" is the fact that they
automatically deduct payment for renewal.

And magically, you have entered into a contract without ever having seen
their documentation in the first place.

Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Lawrence [mailto:jon§jonlawrence.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 20 August 2002 10:05 PM
To: dns§lists.auda.org.au
Subject: RE: [DNS] Fwd: Notice: To Protect Your Online Identity, We
Offer a High Security Feature Free to Our Customers Account # <- N-BTQK9
-> 


Well that's very interesting if that's the case (I deleted the original
email in this thread already so I can't check it).  

Their terms and conditions as posted on their website do not appear to
reserve
them the right to bill for renewals without an explicit order.  Also, during
the registration process on their site you are also presented with the
option
of selecting (or not) the "high security features" that are the subject
of this thread.  

Can you please forward the relevant text from their mailout?

thanks
jon



>-- Original Message --
>Reply-To: dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au
>From: Ron Stark <ronstark&#167;businesspark.com.au>
>To: "'dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au'" <dns§lists.auda.org.au>
>Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 21:51:40 +1000
>Subject: RE: [DNS] Fwd: Notice: To Protect Your Online Identity, We Offer
>
>	a High Security Feature Free to Our Customers    Account # <-
N-BTQK9
->
>
>
>
>Jon, it's not a free offer.  It's an offer that says "we will automatically
>deduct payment from your credit card unless you click here to say don't".
>That's not "opt in" - that's "not-opt-out".  So what happens if my email
>has
>changed?  What happens if my mail server is down?  What happens if I'm
on
>holiday?  I get money taken from my credit card without my authority -
>that's what happens.
>
>If they say "Click here if you want us to take your money" that's OK -
but
>it's not OK the way they've done it.
>
>Ron Stark
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jon Lawrence [mailto:jon&#167;jonlawrence.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, 20 August 2002 6:48 PM
>To: dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au
>Subject: Re: [DNS] Fwd: Notice: To Protect Your Online Identity, We
>Offer a High Security Feature Free to Our Customers Account # <- N-BTQK9
>-> 
>
>
>Rod
>
>You are correct this offer relates to gTLDs and not .au domain names. 
There
>is nothing here that I have any problems with, and I've seen lots of
>practices
>in the gTLD market that I do have problems with.
>
>This is an offer of a free service.  There is clearly no obligation on
the
>customer to take this up.  The automatic renewal is also something that
>many gTLD registrars offer, some of whom hide it in their terms and
>conditions
>rather than being upfront about it being an option as Namescout are doing
>here.
>
>Having said that however this is one of a few examples I've seen lately
>that make it clear to me that Namescout has not yet come to terms with
the
>idiosyncrasies of the .au space.  At very least they should have mentioned
>which domain spaces this feature is applicable to, unless they actually
>think they can offer these services in .au which is a troubling thought...
>
>jon
>
>
>>-- Original Message --
>>Reply-To: dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au
>>From: "Rod Keys" <rod&#167;ddns.com.au>
>>To: <dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au>
>>Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:27:08 +1000
>>Subject: Re: [DNS] Fwd: Notice: To Protect Your Online Identity, We Offer
>>a High Security Feature Free to Our Customers    Account # <- N-BTQK9
->
>>
>>
>>
>>Ron,
>>I think they refer to GTLD's not CC. It's just a way to try and glue
>>customers to them.
>>I would think they could be challanged but what are the laws in Bermuda?
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Ron Stark" <ronstark&#167;businesspark.com.au>
>>To: <dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au>
>>Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 9:14 AM
>>Subject: RE: [DNS] Fwd: Notice: To Protect Your Online Identity, We Offer
>>a
>>High Security Feature Free to Our Customers Account # <- N-BTQK9 ->
>>
>>
>>> Some quick observations:
>>>
>>> 1 I can't see the relevance of the "security lock" - that protection
>>> is an integral part of every registrar's procedures
>>>
>>> 2 How can they offer a 1-year renewal when there's a 2-year minimum
>>> for .com.au domains?
>>>
>>> 3 The offer is a "not-opt-out" one that involves a "We'll take your
>>> money if you don't reply".  I have a BIG problem with that one.
>>>
>>> 4 I have a problem with the notion that the "not-opt-out" debit
>>> authorisation is couched in terms of "this is a free security feature"
>>- a
>>> plain nonsense, especially when the "protection" is provided by every
>>> registrar.
>>>
>>> 5 Although an apparently small excess, isn't there a maximum of 90
>>> days prior notice?  Why 95 days?
>>>
>>> 6 There's an inference that if you turn the "security feature" off you
>>> no longer enjoy protection against malicious transfers to other
>>registrars.
>>> Isn't this then in violation of the Registrar's Agreement?
>>>
>>> Ron Stark
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: OzNet Hosting [mailto:waleed.salhien&#167;telstra.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 20 August 2002 8:51 AM
>>> To: DNS - List
>>> Subject: [DNS] Fwd: Notice: To Protect Your Online Identity, We Offer
>a
>>> High Security Feature Free to Our Customers Account # <- N-BTQK9 ->
>>>
>>>
>>> hi,
>>>
>>> can someone please tell me whether the below email i received is
>>> legally correct or not as i feel it is just a scam to force customers
>>> to pay extra money to renew there domain names.
>>>
>>> please provide your feedback.
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>the
>>> author, further information at the above URL.  (353 subscribers.)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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