I just read this thread and I have to say I agree that there need to be
stricter rules on ABN trading as Names. I think the laws in place and too
validation process at INA/INWW is sufficiant enough but perhaps ASICS or who
ever need to be more stringent when allowing  T/A names.
.com registeration was always a smash and grab type process where anyone
could register anything in hope they'd get a huge offer from some company
that wanted said domain. Until landmark trails basically deterred
'entrepreneurs' from registering what ever they liked.
If trading as names aren't policed, then how long before .au domains suffer
the same problems?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Discount Domain Name Services" <info&#167;ddns.com.au>
To: <dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: [DNS] By passing name checks with ABN's for .au's


> Steve..Are you a patent lawyer?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stephen" <admin&#167;lawyer.net.au>
> To: <dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au>
> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 4:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [DNS] By passing name checks with ABN's for .au's
>
>
> >
> > With respect Mark that's probably not true. Its been a while since I
> > registered a company, but my recollection is that ASIC didn't care what
> you
> > called the company as long as it wasn't F*#$ Off Pty Ltd (although swear
> > words in foreign languages are generally acceptable), or identical with
> > another name. They may have had some rules about deeming 2 names to be
> > identical when one was a plural of another, but they may not even go
that
> > far.
> >
> > ASIC is not equipped, nor appropriate, to determine trade mark disputes,
> and
> > nor are domain registrars at the registration stage. They have to be
> > determined by some sort of judicial process where each side produces
> > evidence and argument. Sure some cases such as Microsoft are obvious,
but
> > what about "acme"? There is no clear point at which you can draw the
line
> > between an obvious trademark dispute, that can be left to a bureaucrat
to
> > determine, and one that needs argument. Thus they are all required to go
> to
> > dispute resolution.
> >
> > Trade marks are registered in different categories. You can register ABC
> as
> > a trademark for software and I can register it for clothing, without
> either
> > of us infringing the other's rights. In some cases it is not so clear
cut
> > and there can be overlap between what the two contenders produce.
> >
> > Stephen Gethin
> > IT Lawyer
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mark Hughes <effectivebusiness&#167;pplications.com.au>
> > To: <dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 9:54 PM
> > Subject: RE: [DNS] By passing name checks with ABN's for .au's
> >
> >
> > > No new issues are raised by this.
> > >
> > > > one could register an ABN with the ATO having a
> > > > trading name of Microsoft, INA, or MelbourneIT. The ATO would
> > > > never validate the trading name.
> > >
> > > Under the domain name rules that have existed for yonks:
> > >
> > > * a business name of "Microscope Software" could be used to apply for
> the
> > > domain name "microsoft.com.au"
> > > * a business name of "International Networking Associates" could be
used
> > to
> > > apply for ina.com.au
> > > * a business name of "Melbourne Importers and Traders" could be used
to
> > > apply for "melbourneit.com.au"
> > >
> > > Those three business names (or other similar ones with the same
effect)
> > > could easily be created - no validation checks applied by the relevant
> > govt.
> > > department in each state would prohibit their creation.
> > >
> > > So the example given above raises no new issues.
> > >
> > > The domain name application process does NOT check what rights the
> > applying
> > > entity has to the name its applying for.  The application process uses
a
> > set
> > > of rules to check the name applied for against an external list of
> names -
> > > eg. company name, business name, ABN name.
> > >
> > > It doesn't check whether the applicant has the right to use that
company
> > > name, business name, or ABN Name.  Nor should it.  It would be
> > inappropriate
> > > for auDA to second-guess whether a company name granted by ASIC or a
> > > government dept business name should or should not have been issued to
> > that
> > > entity.
> > >
> > > The appropriate mechanisms to deal with the examples you give above
are
> > the
> > > existing laws about trademark infringement and 'passing off', etc.
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards, Mark
> > >
> > > PS - apologies for posting to the list comment on an issue of
substance!
> > :)
> > >
> > > Mark Hughes
> > > Effective Business Applications Pty Ltd
> > > effectivebusiness&#167;pplications.com.au
> > > www.pplications.com.au
> > > +61 4 1374 3959
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Chris Disspain [mailto:ceo&#167;auda.org.au]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, 14 March 2002 12:45
> > > > To: dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au
> > > > Subject: RE: [DNS] By passing name checks with ABN's for .au's
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > David,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for this. I'm looking into it at the moment. In the meantime,
> > > > please send me (off list if you wish) the details of the example of
an
> > > > ABN trading name you refer to.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Chris Disspain
> > > > CEO - auDA
> > > > ceo&#167;auda.org.au
> > > > www.auda.org.au
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: David Ford [mailto:djford&#167;prepaidonline.com.au]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, 14 March 2002 9:46
> > > > To: dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au
> > > > Subject: [DNS] By passing name checks with ABN's for .au's
> > > >
> > > > Hello all,
> > > >
> > > >  It seems there is a flaw in name checks for allocating a .au
> > > > domain.
> > > >
> > > >  auda currently allows an ABN listed trading name as sufficient
> > > > proof of
> > > > naming rights.
> > > >
> > > >  When registering for an ABN, trading names are NOT validated.
> > > > The ATO have
> > > > no reason to, the ABN is only for tax purposes as far as they are
> > > > concerned.
> > > > Ask the ATO (13 24 78) they will confirm this.
> > > >
> > > >  The Office of consumer and business affairs (08) 8204 9628 in
> > > > South
> > > > Australia, requires for a trading name to be recognized it must be
> > > > registered as a business or company name. Yet the ATO will not check
> > > > that a
> > > > trading name is registered.
> > > >
> > > >  So hypothetically speaking one could register an ABN with the
> > > > ATO having a
> > > > trading name of Microsoft, INA, or MelbourneIT. The ATO would never
> > > > validate
> > > > the trading name.
> > > >
> > > >  Then approach INA/melbourne IT and request the domain
> > > > microsoft.com.au or
> > > > ina.com.au or melbourneit.com.au to be registered and it would
> approved
> > > > based on the information from the ABN. This was put to the ATO and a
> > > > representitive from melbourne IT - they agreed it was an absurd
> outcome,
> > > > but
> > > > by current auda policies possible.
> > > >
> > > > A VERY similar thing is happening with a client at the moment,
> > > > they own the
> > > > name by registration of company and business names, yet they have
lost
> > > > their
> > > > most deserving domain name due to an ABN trading name.
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts people?
> > > >
> > > > David Ford.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
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