Geoff,

  Thank you so much for this insightful post.

Geoff Huston wrote:

> And with this posting from Mr Williams, with his usual standard of
> reasoned argument that I have come to know and admire for so many months
> within the various domain name policy mailers, this list moves so far
> away from its intent that its utility for the rational discussion
> of policy within the .au domain space is now over.
>
> So long,
>
>    Geoff Huston
>
> At 01:53 21/05/98 +0100, Jeff Williams wrote:
> >Alastair and all,
> >
> >  FIrst let me say that I am very new to this list.  Now for everybody's enjoyment
> >
> >the rest of my comments below yours Alastair.  >;)
> >
> >Alastair Waddell wrote:
> >
> >> This will be an exhausting exercise Adam, but seeing as I'm used
> >> to countering pedantic argument from children, I'll find the
> >> patience to reply. Also, I know from experience that children
> >> slowly lose the plot, cry, make up and go to bed. So there's
> >> hope...
> >
> >  Ohhhh Yes daddy I know that adam is being bad!  WAAAA!  WAAAAA!
> >WAAAAA!.  Get real will ya Alastair!  What a wanker.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, May 21, 1998 at 11:51:25AM +1000, Adam Todd wrote:
> >> > >Rick W suggested I subscribe and crosspost this into this list.
> >> > >Hopefully you lot have a longer attention span that the
> >> > >hairdressers in aussie-isp and Adam, I got your reply advertising
> >> > >AUSRC as a solution for my proposal already ta.
> >> >
> >> > Advertising?  Not at all, suggesting.  Why is it I advertise and others
> >> > mention?  Should I have a mystery person posting about alternatives instead?
> >>
> >> I _don't know_ why you persistently advertise to the lists. I
> >> suggest it's because you have a personality disorder of some
> >> sort.
> >
> >  I don't see anything in an "Advertising" about this comment by Adam.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Mystery person? Two Adams for the price of one? An analogy -
> >> that's like wasting 80% of the Amazonian basis instead of 40%
> >
> >  God you are an Idiot Alastair!
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> <here we go with the one by one counter 'argument' routine>
> >>
> >> I did have a point to make. Detracting from the focus of the
> >> thread is an Evil Act, Adam. And you'll go to /dev/Hell if you do
> >> it.
> >
> >  Describe in detail how and in what manner is Adam's comments
> >detracting for the focus of this thread?  I f you don't or cannot, than you
> >are just grandstanding.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> > >I notice an accc person is on the list so an opinion from thou
> >> > >wouldn't go amiss.
> >> >
> >> > There are also ACCC people on Aussie-ISP, so don't worry, they are WELL
> >> > aware of the matter.  It's been discussed numerous times in the last three
> >> > months with staff at the ACCC.
> >
> >  And what were are the specifics of these discussions with the ACCC.  Are
> >there any transcripts of these discussions?  If so where are they posted?  If
> >not posted, when will they be posted?  Otherwise, again you are just making
> >a comment in passing here.  What the HELL that indicates is of no real value.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, sooner or later they might bite and join the thread which
> >> would be encouraging.
> >>
> >> > >The proposition I'm putting forward for debate is simply that the
> >> > >portability or non-portability of 3LD's should be indicated to a
> >> > >prospect _in a proactive manner_.
> >>
> >> > In short, I guess I agree.  But then do you also tell everyone their Phone
> >> > number isn't portable, or is that assumed?
> >>
> >> OK, you agree but you qualify this with the "Phone number"
> >> analogy. About portability of phone number's I'd say
> >>
> >> o You're mad.
> >>   I have no say - it's Telstra. I understand how domains are
> >>    inherently portable but I have no idea as to the complications
> >>    in making a phone number portable.
> >
> >  Jesus Alastair, I learned this in Networking 101.  If you don't know
> >how phone numbers are portable and the steps in doing it, you are
> >a near ignoramus.
> >
> >>   I believe macro's (numbers) are portable
> >>   You're mad.
> >>   The public has become conditioned to a general expectation of
> >>    what they can expect (and what they have the power to change)
> >
> >  But many do not even know that they do have this power.  To not make
> >them aware that they have choices or to actively prevent them form having more
> >choices is very bad for business and dishonest.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> > Do you also tell the person who purchases a Pizza from a store and drives
> >> > 45 minutes that the pizza won't be as nice when they get to the destination?
> >>
> >> A pizza get's colder the longer it's in the van. Sure, it's based
> >> on an assumption, or lack of. We generally assume that the pizza
> >> won't be kept piping hot for us and although technically, it
> >> probably wouldn't be too hard, we have _come to expect_ a certain
> >> quality in the pizza. Thus, through it's lack of an
> >> implementation of a 'heating of pizza's in transit' the pizza
> >> industry has successfully, and not unreasonably, engendered the
> >> popular notion that it's OK if a pizza isn't delivered piping
> >> hot. If it's cold, well that might be different.
> >
> >  I think that the pizza analogy was not the best analogy, but it works.  Your
> >characterization is far form reality.  See a shrink will ya Alastair?
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> * There is no common perception on the 'right to portability' of
> >> domains names that can be easily qualified in the Australian
> >> market. *
> >
> >  What a shame.  I am an american and we are developing this.  It would
> >seem that as one of the leaders in technology in your part of the world, Australia
> >
> >would be moving in this direction as well.  Try being a cheerleader for this cause
> >
> >instead of throwing up your hands and saying there is nothing you can do.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ** _We know that domain names are _inherently portable_. **
> >>
> >> ** We should act to ensure that the New Forces of Greed don't
> >> engender or profit from a general assumption the supposes other
> >> than that 3LDs are portable_ **
> >
> >  I agree that too much greed is inherently dangerous, but to use this as an
> >excuse not to move as quickly as possible towards portability for all levels
> >of domains is just plain stupid and lacks fore thought.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> > Why does a domain name have to be any more portable than a
> >> > phone number and street address?
> >>
> >> It's obviously past your bed time Adam because you've made an
> >> erroneous logical leap from cold pizzas to the portability of the
> >> delivery addresses of those pizzas.
> >>
> >> This is what's known as 'the Adam Factor' and it's got a lot to
> >> do with your lack of popularity in mailing lists. Amazingly, you
> >> have other negative traits in your writings also.
> >>
> >> So either you're tired and losing it totally, or your wanking.
> >> Either way it's time for bed. Goodnight.
> >>
> >> And when you wake up fresh and bright, let's take up where you
> >> said " In short, I guess I agree" because I don't have the time
> >> for this kiddie shit.
> >>
> >> > If you move house you can't take the address with you.
> >> > If a company moves address, it can't take the building?
> >> > Just a few devils advocating questions, I'd love to see some comments on.
> >>
> >> If I can't stop the flow of junk through head is it my medication
> >> or is it genetic? Is it karma? Is karma the junk. Is it the
> >> devils advocating questions in my head? Or in the house? Is it
> >> the house's karma? Is the house the Dali Lama? Or a banana.
> >>
> >> All you did, other than a token, half hearted assent, was
> >> waste space.
> >
> >  As most of your reply comments have been as well.  In fact worse.  If you think
> >that Adams comments are a waste of space why comment at all?
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> > This has of course been discussed in the USA DNS mail lists from
> >> > yesteryear, and if I can find the thread, I'll repost the discussion, or
> >> > make it available on my web server. (Preferances??)
> >>
> >> You agree in 4 words, waste a few K of bandwidth with psychotic
> >> analogies, and then tell me 'this has been discussed before in
> >> the Good Ole USA'. Please, I beg you, don't spam the list with a
> >> repost. By analogy, your reposts compare with the weapons of
> >> destruction unleashed by some third world (psychotic) demagogue.
> >> They waste a hell of a lot of space.
> >>
> >> If you must use 'junk content mentality', that is, avail yourself
> >> of bulk content for you own bizarre reasons, then please take the
> >> time to summarise it and post only the summary which will be
> >> concise and considerably more relevant and less wasteful of
> >> space.
> >>
> >> Yes, make the discussion available on your web server. Sure. By
> >> all means, ta. I know the url.
> >>
> >> Just contribe more than one half hearted sentence with meaning
> >> and I promise you, you'll be loved and considered a legend by
> >> all.
> >>
> >> Looking forward to picking up the thread of "In short, I guess I
> >> agree" with you, otherwise, well you know what time it is.
> >>
> >> Filter time.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________________________________
> >> > Adam Todd               mailto:at&#167;ah.net   mailto:at§aus
> >> > http://adamtodd.ah.net  http://www.ah.net  http://www.aursc.ah.net
> >> > http://www.ah.net/lists/lwgate
> >>
> >> --
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Alastair Waddell                 o Tel +61 3 96 400-400
> >> Technical Administrator          o Fax +61 3 9222-1363
> >> CyberLabs                        o http://www.cyberlabs.com.au
> >> Queen Street, Melbourne
> >>
> >> + Virtual Services + DNS Maintenance + ISP Co-location + Internetworking
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >--
> >Jeffrey A. Williams
> >DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> >Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> >E-Mail jwkckid1&#167;ix.netcom.com
> >

 Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1&#167;ix.netcom.com